Still an unacceptable statement from someone who leads an organisation that has been funded by government for youth mental health. And without the proper procurement process. That’s the other half of the story Jessie. If he’d just been some random it wouldn’t have been harmful.
Good on you for promoting the much-needed, ‘let’s just take a breath, eh?’ stance. It’s pretty clear that, regardless of context, the comments from someone who is now - for better or worse - the face of this government’s approach to tackling mental illness amongst rangatahi are very, very damaging. It’s also clear the vitriolic response is influenced by the frustration people feel with the way King’s charity has been funded, and the widespread damage this does to other providers in the sector. It’s not a pretty response, but (and speaking as someone who has lived experience here) the lesson is the same: think before you speak.
Many people with an overactive mind use alcohol until they learn a better way. Mental health interventions help to show another way. Pretending it doesn’t happen and cancelling someone for talking about it albeit clumsily is so NZ. Great article Jesse.
Fair comment Jesse and your analysis is certainly worth reading and considering.
With a public profile (like it or not) I think comes a responsibility to choose your words and consider the consequences for others of your espoused views. That’s not to say that you necessarily should temper your views, everybody’s opinion is valid, but rather to speak not in haste but with that extra lenses of “could this be taken the wrong way” and if so, provide clear intent and context.
I appreciated you sharing the wider context of his words.
This is spot on Jesse. I’m consistently freaked out by the energy and glee exhibited when an online mob and media coalesce around the latest subject of a takedown. What he said is absolutely flawed but there’s a reading of the comments happening that is wilfully cursory and not at all thoughtful.
Thanks Jesse. The beat down on Mike King has been rabid. His comments were controversial but he’s been there in the depths of depression. What King is saying is that people would not turn to alcohol and drugs if they had the support they needed. The solution is not alcohol and drugs, the solution is a fully funded mental health support system.
Nope. He said "I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that alcohol has prevented more young people from taking their own lives, than actually takes their own lives." Which goes against all the evidence. Someone running a mental health charity needs to speak factually, not in reckons. Imagine if the head of the Cancer Foundation said that he reckons sunscreen is a waste of time? You'd be equally horrified.
After reading the transcript you shared, I haven't changed my mind. As you quoted, he said "I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that alcohol has prevented more young people from taking their own lives, than actually takes their own lives.". The evidence does not say this at all, in fact the evidence says that in place where alcohol has been more severely restricted, the suicide rate has reduced, especially amongst younger men. The man runs a mental health charity. He needs to be sharing factual information in public, not his reckons. If he doesn't like that then he shouldn't seek a platform.
I’m not sure that his comments were misrepresented as the context you provide doesn’t change how it was reported - but I believe quite critically the research shows a strong causal link between alcohol use and suicide. As well as alcohol exacerbating issues including addiction.
Therefore given his role and prominence it matters. ie there will be youths that take his advice
Second, I’ve learned his charity only provides 1-2 free sessions and the way the money was obtained was dubious and fairly illegitimate.
The context of all that makes the situation not only serious but criticism of its isn’t about cancelling, it’s about re-reviewing the appropriateness of the funding and stature.
Also he’s not been deserted - plenty are standing by him, most of all the Mental Health Minister and PM.
It’s the seriousness of mental health and youths that reflects the severity of critique - and his specific role that makes it relevant.
If he was a comedian I personally wouldn’t care less.
Agree. Also by the way he sort of doubled down on it…. With very questionable comments about “there would be other research that proves him right” and that the medical evidence was “ a matter of opinion “.
100%. It can be confusing to conflate valid critique with 'cancelling' and I think it behooves us to understand the differences - else it is used as a shield to protect in what cases can be harmful situations.
I tend to agree. I am thinking of how easy it is to destroy a person in Aotearoa. Thinking of a former Green MP & unproven allegations. But I do think Govt should actually have in place rules as to who gets funding, particularly in mental health arenas because we have huge issues. One solution would be to have housing for our unhoused whānau. Govt should be funding more housing. So many issues that we could be trying to solve…
Kia ora Jesse, thank you for your courage. If we are eviscerating Mike King for the impression sloppy word choices can bring - ie the differ gymence between " it keeps us going until some help comes along" and ' it can keep us going until some help comes along' - then we all need to be as discriminating about our own words, research, and the basis for our public judgments. This is not to say that accountability and fairness is not a real issue with the funding. See excellent, recent Spinoff article by Anna Sophia. Thank you for "exercising the muscle of good faith". Most of all, I find this writing reassuring as a good, fair example to model for our public discourse. Ngā mihi, Margi
He wouldn’t be on the radio if the messed up process by which he got the money hadn’t happened. Gumboot Friday was a great charity idea. Mental health measures should be funded by the Government to qualified practitioners. Mike King should now be out of the picture, sitting back, happy that the light he shone on our woeful Mental Health response has been resolved. Alas, instead we have this debacle. One of many, under the coalition of carelessness.
i do have issues with King, but I did think that he was being ripped for something he didnt really say, in that it was taken out of context. The man is not stupid, why would he say something opposite to what his heart works for. My issue has been the funding, the accountability, the resourcing in terms of other good organisations unresourced, theres a bit of a gravey train maybe.........but from distance, I could get what his drift was, and from an ex addict perspective he was coming from. Just like, and I hate to admit this......some of tRumps electric shark stories were vaguely understandable. May be my adhd brain. Thanks for this call to a bit more grace Jesse. Point taken.
Still an unacceptable statement from someone who leads an organisation that has been funded by government for youth mental health. And without the proper procurement process. That’s the other half of the story Jessie. If he’d just been some random it wouldn’t have been harmful.
Good on you for promoting the much-needed, ‘let’s just take a breath, eh?’ stance. It’s pretty clear that, regardless of context, the comments from someone who is now - for better or worse - the face of this government’s approach to tackling mental illness amongst rangatahi are very, very damaging. It’s also clear the vitriolic response is influenced by the frustration people feel with the way King’s charity has been funded, and the widespread damage this does to other providers in the sector. It’s not a pretty response, but (and speaking as someone who has lived experience here) the lesson is the same: think before you speak.
Many people with an overactive mind use alcohol until they learn a better way. Mental health interventions help to show another way. Pretending it doesn’t happen and cancelling someone for talking about it albeit clumsily is so NZ. Great article Jesse.
Fair comment Jesse and your analysis is certainly worth reading and considering.
With a public profile (like it or not) I think comes a responsibility to choose your words and consider the consequences for others of your espoused views. That’s not to say that you necessarily should temper your views, everybody’s opinion is valid, but rather to speak not in haste but with that extra lenses of “could this be taken the wrong way” and if so, provide clear intent and context.
I appreciated you sharing the wider context of his words.
This is spot on Jesse. I’m consistently freaked out by the energy and glee exhibited when an online mob and media coalesce around the latest subject of a takedown. What he said is absolutely flawed but there’s a reading of the comments happening that is wilfully cursory and not at all thoughtful.
Thanks Jesse. The beat down on Mike King has been rabid. His comments were controversial but he’s been there in the depths of depression. What King is saying is that people would not turn to alcohol and drugs if they had the support they needed. The solution is not alcohol and drugs, the solution is a fully funded mental health support system.
Except that’s not what he said. He said alcohol is a solution.
Nope. He said "I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that alcohol has prevented more young people from taking their own lives, than actually takes their own lives." Which goes against all the evidence. Someone running a mental health charity needs to speak factually, not in reckons. Imagine if the head of the Cancer Foundation said that he reckons sunscreen is a waste of time? You'd be equally horrified.
After reading the transcript you shared, I haven't changed my mind. As you quoted, he said "I would suggest to you, I would suggest to you that alcohol has prevented more young people from taking their own lives, than actually takes their own lives.". The evidence does not say this at all, in fact the evidence says that in place where alcohol has been more severely restricted, the suicide rate has reduced, especially amongst younger men. The man runs a mental health charity. He needs to be sharing factual information in public, not his reckons. If he doesn't like that then he shouldn't seek a platform.
I’m not sure that his comments were misrepresented as the context you provide doesn’t change how it was reported - but I believe quite critically the research shows a strong causal link between alcohol use and suicide. As well as alcohol exacerbating issues including addiction.
Therefore given his role and prominence it matters. ie there will be youths that take his advice
Second, I’ve learned his charity only provides 1-2 free sessions and the way the money was obtained was dubious and fairly illegitimate.
The context of all that makes the situation not only serious but criticism of its isn’t about cancelling, it’s about re-reviewing the appropriateness of the funding and stature.
Also he’s not been deserted - plenty are standing by him, most of all the Mental Health Minister and PM.
It’s the seriousness of mental health and youths that reflects the severity of critique - and his specific role that makes it relevant.
If he was a comedian I personally wouldn’t care less.
Agree. Also by the way he sort of doubled down on it…. With very questionable comments about “there would be other research that proves him right” and that the medical evidence was “ a matter of opinion “.
100%. It can be confusing to conflate valid critique with 'cancelling' and I think it behooves us to understand the differences - else it is used as a shield to protect in what cases can be harmful situations.
I tend to agree. I am thinking of how easy it is to destroy a person in Aotearoa. Thinking of a former Green MP & unproven allegations. But I do think Govt should actually have in place rules as to who gets funding, particularly in mental health arenas because we have huge issues. One solution would be to have housing for our unhoused whānau. Govt should be funding more housing. So many issues that we could be trying to solve…
Therein lies the issue. There are rules, but they were circumvented for political expediency.
Kia ora Jesse, thank you for your courage. If we are eviscerating Mike King for the impression sloppy word choices can bring - ie the differ gymence between " it keeps us going until some help comes along" and ' it can keep us going until some help comes along' - then we all need to be as discriminating about our own words, research, and the basis for our public judgments. This is not to say that accountability and fairness is not a real issue with the funding. See excellent, recent Spinoff article by Anna Sophia. Thank you for "exercising the muscle of good faith". Most of all, I find this writing reassuring as a good, fair example to model for our public discourse. Ngā mihi, Margi
He wouldn’t be on the radio if the messed up process by which he got the money hadn’t happened. Gumboot Friday was a great charity idea. Mental health measures should be funded by the Government to qualified practitioners. Mike King should now be out of the picture, sitting back, happy that the light he shone on our woeful Mental Health response has been resolved. Alas, instead we have this debacle. One of many, under the coalition of carelessness.
i do have issues with King, but I did think that he was being ripped for something he didnt really say, in that it was taken out of context. The man is not stupid, why would he say something opposite to what his heart works for. My issue has been the funding, the accountability, the resourcing in terms of other good organisations unresourced, theres a bit of a gravey train maybe.........but from distance, I could get what his drift was, and from an ex addict perspective he was coming from. Just like, and I hate to admit this......some of tRumps electric shark stories were vaguely understandable. May be my adhd brain. Thanks for this call to a bit more grace Jesse. Point taken.
It’s quite good to get an overall perspective. Thanks Jesse
I’m with Jesse on this. Bang on.
Bravo - going beyond the headline.
Thanks Jesse, for being the lone voice actually putting Mike’s words in context. Much respect.
The quotes above don't modify the context as it was reported in multiple outlets.